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biosis (profile) wrote,
on 1-21-2005 at 10:04pm
Subject: dA continued
Let's see if we can be 'civil'.


Something like a disclaimer:

I have something to say, you don't have to care, listen, or even read it.

Yeah, I'm using public space. Frequented space. I admit freely I want to be heard. I freely admit I'm bitching.

No, this is not about the 304rage that's been running rampant. It a sequence of thoughts, points, and opinion(s).

Have some mostlyraw:

We're all just feeding off each other. Of course, that's more than generalized. We're feeding off the media, the fashions, the next new thing, each other. It's just that much more apparent, probably, in the online world. You see something you like, take it and add it to something. Like that odd star you saw on a creature's shoulder? That pose, with the needles? How about that triangular mask, with the three hatch-marks? Take it, use it--second thoughts or not.

I'm no exception, heh, are you kidding? Neither are you, most likely. Want to see? You can watch me and Akurei feed off each other--we've been doing it for quite the time, since ninth grade. Picking at each other's quirks, subconciously and not. The occassional stroke over the ribs, the rounded fur. Yeah, I'm naming names--not to start a war, but it point out the reality. Look at the similarities my art took on to Push Tyber's last year. It wasn't as bad as they thought it was, but that doesn't make it any better.
edit: [deleted] Let your friends get away with it, for any number of reasons. Choose not to see. Choose not to care. Either way, it's probably all of us at some point or another, subconciously or not. None of that makes it any more "right". Should we privately solve these things, or leave them to the public? Is there any choice in the matter, really? Can we leave it to the discretion? You can't and shouldn't go around policing the world, although I'm sure some would care to differ.

Something I'm trying to say, but Akurei says it better:
" artist is extremely talented, and has a unique style. And that's great, because different is interesting, and really holds you eye. Different can be interesting, even without being appealing, really. But when an artist becomes too 'influenced', or whatever euphemism you want to use, their art just... drops, somehow. Yeah, they're still amazing, but they've lost a certain quality, and their art is... empty, somehow. Influence drains the artist, just pushes them off into the hazy backdrop of fellow 'trend followers'; skilled though they may be, their work doesn't really hold one's eye or attention, not like it did before."

But it's so hard to pin down on anyone, much less point it out. When someone does it to you, it just gnaws and gnaws away at you. It limits, discredits, causes the most stupid and insidious things. Ruins friendships, makes enemies. Makes you sick, even--suddenly, you don't feel like sharing anything more than you have to. I love sharing my work, but I don't like having to feel the fear of waiting to see some popular, particular aspect show up in the next dozen, not knowing whether they're intruding or whether it's a coincidence. It's hard to post anything even slightly personal, or containing a personal symbol because it's so hard to see it thrown on something else, when they don't know what it means. Nobody owns the crosshair target, much less the crescent moon, and I'm not trying to. It's the context that gives it away--an example of context being a red crescent moon being used in tandem with some sort of masked, draconic creature on a vague background. I don't know about the rest of you, but I try my best to not say anything for the most part if, and when, I see it, and only in self-defense or discussion. So much for that, right? Hello, soapbox world. I'm free game. It's so hard to pin down, 1) because it for all one knows, it could be a coincidence, the benefit of the doubt. We tend to think up a lot of the same things, and have the same appeals, 2) it's still all so relative and subjective anyway. The "art" world is nothing so direct like numbers and simple lines of code, it's eye of the beholder, if you'll allow me to throw a cliche that way. You can't measure influence in clean cut units, or even begin to estimate without assuming. Other times, you can't place in words what you're seeing that you feel so violated by, or maybe you dismiss it with something along the lines of "that's just the way it is". Then there's the indelible drama running rampant. Let's all tell each other to screw off and hang, because that'll solve everything. Let's rally an army and start a flame war.

Let's not even start throwing the word "original" around the board. So-called "celebrity status". Right.

This doesn't have to be a snarky bitch-fest, and it doesn't have to tear people apart. Let's have an incentive for peace, not war. I'll be civilized from here on out if you will.

This isn't a completed essay, or argument, much less a fully expressed thought. Let's talk, let's not. There's a thousand questions just waiting to riot, among other things. Let's stop, think, and propose what might, could, and can be done, if anything. Let's ask some of those questions, so we can start to get a picture. Challenge, concur, and everything inbetween.
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01-21-05 11:47pm

hmm... very well said. I don't have to ever wonder if someone's taken any of my ideas (my art frankly isn't that good enough) but I can see where you're coming from. We do feed off of each other all the time, it's how we learn to do everything from education to talking, but at times (especially with art) it really is offensive.

Sorry I don't have much to add to this conversation


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01-22-05 12:00am

I'm a deviant user that saw your post on your site. It definitely caused me to stop and think, because it's a real problem. I have that too. I know my art is far from original right now, and a far throw from the level of personal expression you've achieved. I'm justing trying things out to find what works best for me. Because society, and art, is based off sharing ideas. It does not mean copying ideas, nor does it discourage independent thought. Doubtless every artist has had the positive (or negative) influence of something or someone that has affected the way they express themselves through art. It helps define who they are. So I wouldn't say it's bad.

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thisis:jennadelle, 01-22-05 12:04am

Bad or not, it still hurts those on the receiving end.

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And this is Akurei, 01-22-05 12:10am

Often, it hurts those on both ends, in more ways than one.

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Re:, 01-22-05 12:16am

I agree very much. And that seems to be a theme today. Like this picture at DA
Although, people should know that by putting t heir art, whether it be pictures or poetry/prose that its open to the public eye for all to see. If its on the internet, everyone and anyone can know about it. Apparantly a lot of people have been leaving DA and moving to other sites (like VCL or elfwood) lately due to art theft and the such. But it will continue to happen there too. So, I suppose, thanks for publicly stating what many are already thinking? yes.


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Re: Re:, 01-23-05 3:40pm

Personally, I don't think the frothing masses left on art theft alone, 'cause surely they know it is inevitable wherever they settle. But, moreso, the fact that DA is tolerating it.

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intruiging indeed, 01-22-05 12:23am

i read this on DA. very interesting and thought provoking.
i liked that.

i understand what you are talking about, i have seen things and desided to uses them..twisting them to be slightly different but comeing from some one else none the less.

some times i find i do have an idea...but have no idea the right technique to use in order to make it visible....put what i see in my mind on something i can see with my eyes.
when i see what one artist did, i find i realize that is the exact thing i was looking for..a technique that makes things look like they glow for instenence.

i try not to take what other people do...or there styles. markings and certian asppects of there art ARE theres. it is a personal thing.
but i do try to learn. more how to create a affect.
like how to create correct lighting and shadows. good proportions. and smooth poses....that is the basics of art though.

i wonder where it is that we seperate learning how to advance an art by trying a technique we saw and simply coppying some elses idea or style?

your words have obtained my keen interest into this subject......


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3019., 01-22-05 12:43am

Oh man. I hope there is enough space for what I have to say... eh heh.
As 6298 and myself (3019) on deviantart read this, I was electecd spokesperson once again.
Now first of all, I completely respect what you are trying to say - and seen as I hate to be... 'feeding off of you'... as you might say. This has gotten quite difficult for me... but anyways.
And, I offer peace - so please don't hurt us.
Ah, what I am trying to say is, that 6298 and started a roleplay a long time ago... and unintentionally, the two characters became a species called 'Ethros' that we had created. Chi -the blue one in the upcoming picture - is the character I made up, and the tan colored is Thae, the one that 6298 made up.
We then decided one day to go have a look at your earliest pictures and scan through your gallery (only recently,,, like a few weeks ago) and to our surprise and horror - we found out you are like our twin ((very scary... you have the same dragon poster as me as well as the giant plush tiger - only it's orange instead of white, and you have a figurine of Lugia which Lugiagirlz (6298) who has countless items of Lugia. 6298 and I are basically sisters and when we saw that picture it made us wonder O_o)) - plus! A few of your early pictures reminded us of Thae. The only similarity that I could find in Chi was hybrid west-caliger ears that I had unintentionally used without knowing. ((by the way, the image is here: / It was a random idea. - it was also the only one that 6298 would allow me to show you until we got your approval.))
--- But. Although the ethro species was basically inspired by you, the hybrid style that her and I have made up fits our personallities exactly so we are kind of tied up in a knot. ((Oh dear, I am horrible at typing something like this)) So I am at a loss and I hope to talk this over with you peacefull like. If you have any questions or opinions I really want to hear them but seen as I don't have an account on this site - I humbly ask that you contact me through Deviantart. We have not put any images of our characters onto the internet without your approval, and I do hope you approve because I am about halfway into rewriting the roleplay into a story which is quite brutal.

Anyways, I thank you for your time and I hope I do not cause too much inconvieniance.

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Re: 3019., 01-22-05 12:49am

... oh dear, I look back on this and realise that a few things could be taken wrong... I hope you don't take it wrong Jennadelle.

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01-22-05 1:24am

My art has changed a great deal over the last year, since I stopped hiding it and started showing it to the world. I am not happy about some of the changes. I am afraid I have had too much of a tendancy to bow to pressure.... I can only see 'gee it is nice but the paws are too small' so many times before I cave and make them larger. I have tried very hard not to copy anything from anyone else but I see the way someone does X and like it.... and it may well find its way into my art. I try very hard not to copy things like symbles and try to keep my own style but it is difficult, over time, not to 'improve' things..... and as you say, in those improvements, loose some of the originality. I don't know what the answer is. It is too easy to condemn folks who are blatent about copying art when really, most if not all of us have been at least influenced by others.

Art is in the eye of the beholder and where is the line between trying to make ones self better and stealing someone else's ideas? I don't know. *sigh* I wish I did.

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01-22-05 1:51am

I also have come to this from DA. I read this and thought nothing of it at the time, but as the day went on, it kept nagging at the back of my mind. You have...inspired me to become a better me. To make my art what it is from my own ideas in my own head, not from a concept of what somebody else's is. Of course, when I submit something like that, I give credit to who the idea was from, but now I shall go forth as a new person ^_^.

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01-22-05 2:10am

(Came from DeviantArt to this here).

Well, I do agree. We all feed off of eachother in someway.

However, you are one of my favourite artists, so sometimes I may unintentionally take some of your style without realizing it, but everytime I look at it and go "oh, this looks like Jenna's work" I always will credit you.

Even for instance when I did a very very very common thing in the world -- just a black border like you do a lot (can't find a specific example at the moment) I even credited you there.

Not sure if that's any consolation at all -- and perhaps I missed the WHOLE point of this post, but I just did want to put in my 2 cents that you are always fully credited when it comes to my works and they bare any resembelence. Infact sometimes I draw something that looks so much like your's, no matter how good it is, I will not even scan it or upload it because it seems like I violated you personally, stealing your style, when I need to stick to my own.

Though I doubt any of this matters -- you hardly know me, just from my random favourites all over your things and a few comments here and there. I pale in comparison to your status. But perhaps it is good to know there are some people out there who still have a bit of decency.

But in random thought, your artwork is still really awesome. And no matter how many people ripped off of it or the "context" of it or your designs, we all know who it came from: Jennadelle.

Yeh yeh, you've probably heard all that before, and whatever. But, your artwork really is amazing. It's so amazing it puts me at loss of a good comment to even say why it's so amazing.

But however this does randomly remind me of a friend of mine... it's not really anything "new" but on my character (who's an alien who looks like a little rabit like... pokemon thing) I made her hair flow down all pretty like for symbolic reasons. And suddenly, my friend started to draw her character with the same flowing down hair. Not that big of a deal, considering a lot of people do that, but it gnawed away at me and ripped me apart. I even started to see some of my style in her's -- to the point it was blaring obvious. And she never credited me not once -- so I finally pointed it out to her, in which she admitted she actually did get the long hair from me and was unconsciously taking my style.

Sorry for any spelling errors and typos, currently kind of tired. Thus why I probably missed the WHOLE point of this post, and like I said, I doubt anything I've said really matters, but also like I said, I guess it's always good to know some people still have a bit of decency.

And also once again sorry if this post is completely irrelevant and I've wasted your time and if you're sitting here thinking, "...Wow, how stupid is THAT person?"

- Kippixin

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well..., 01-22-05 2:14am

I don't know. I think it's hard, if not impossible, for anyone who views a wide variety of art to not have their own style influenced by it. The thing is, it takes time for someone to synthesize that influence into their own work so that it's not just a blatant heist, but rather a kind of fine-tuning process. I mean, we see all these great historical artists like Renoir, Monet, Picasso, Escher, etc. when we're young, and they're sort of the foundation on which we build our style. After a while, though, we begin to not only build on top of that foundation, but also incorporate the foundation itself back into our work in new ways. Our individual experiences, experiments, and soforth lead us to reshape what pieces we've "stolen" into something different, and more belonging to us, until it eventually becomes our own unique style, and those original influences become hazy, if not completely unrecognizable.

So what I'm saying is, if you're worried about elements of your style being copied, then you have little recourse but to only show your work to non-artistic people, or to no one at all. Outright art plagiarism is pretty heinous, but influence, as you've aptly called it, is pretty much unavoidable for both the influence and the influenced.

I do completely understand your desire to keep your style entirely your own, but only complete plagiarism can jeopardize that. Aside from that, it's kinda like you're giving someone a malleable copy of your most beautiful statue. It's a complete knockoff at first, but it won't be for long, because they'll fiddle with it a lot if they're any kind of artist. And someday it may be used to build another amazing statue that will, in turn, serve as an influence to the next in this series of Rodins. Best of all, though, is that neither you nor the artist will ever know that, without you, this thing wouldn't be what it is. ('tain't squat)

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01-22-05 2:16am

Jenna, I know this effects you and hurts you, but what can we do?
Original thought is obsolete.
- pigeonwings.dA

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Hmmm..., 01-22-05 4:44am


Though very rarely would people (artists) would admit that they are not completely original, even to themselves.

Originality is.... a bit overrated in this too modern a world, where inventions are things of the past and innovations are fading fast.
Where the cultural and moral values would have to expand exponentially in order to give birth to more originality in every aspect of life, including art.

Pfft... What the heck was I talking about anyway ?


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Re: Hmmm..., 01-22-05 5:06am

Very good point that you have made here. Let me just say that as far as people using others to improve themselves... I find NOTHING wrong with this... however, the problem is that most artists never can go onward to create their own style and that is bad.

I had way too much influence of other artists for a while, but once I actually worked onmy own style, I got oen and I love it.

wow... it's 2 AM and I can't think. Maybe I'll comment later when I unserstand what I'm typing but basically I agree.

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This is Jennadelle., 01-22-05 9:18am

Again, how can you say there is "nothing wrong" with this form of plagarism, when it hurts people? Especially those you who get too influenced by...?

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Re: This is Jennadelle., 01-22-05 9:45pm

crap... spent forever writing up a reply and lost it.

anyway. It was that 2 AM thing... I couldn't get my point across.

I don't approce of plagarism, but I do not see anythign wrong with 'inspiration'

inspiration has a wide definition, but I am okay with a few forms of it. Mostly, the only one I see nothign wrong with at all would be the one where, to use me as an example, I may see one of your maked dragon and go 'cool! Masks!" and perhaps draw a mask of my own design on an armadillo.
Perhaps another perfectly okay way would be if I had a perfected style of dragons that was totally my own and I drew one wearing a mask of my own style and creation. Of course, listing that you are said inspiration.

How ever, I see plagarism as if I saw your masked dragons and went 'awesome, masks!" and then the next day drew 50 million pictures of dragons in your style wearing masks of your style and in your porportions and called it all my own, foregoing all forms of giving creadit.

That is wrong.

anywya, no matter what form it is, it also depends fully on the artist. Some artsits are more protective of their work than other. For example, Anne McCaffrey does NOT allow fanfics of her work to be posted at She does not want to see any. Because she does not want any, people should heed her wishes and not do so, or if they do, not show anyone but themselves. Same goes with artistry. If the artist does not want it, people should not. Even if they give credit.

still don't know if I got this across the way I intended.

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Re: This is Jennadelle., 01-26-05 12:17am

Human learn and study by imitating first, and then inventing or innovating later on.

Our skills on drawing, painting, writing, singing, and such are severely limited at the beginning. Rare are the cases that one is able to do such skills from birth.

Talents, such as fingers, hand-eye coordinations, imagining abilities, colour coordinations, and many more, are potentials, they could be further increased, decreased, or stuck throughout our lives. But they still need mediums if they're to be understood by others.
Drawing, painting, writing, singing, and such skills.
Skills we learned through others.

I'm rambling again.
What was the point....

Oh yeah, skills we learned from others.

Teachers were once said as one of the unknown and unregarded heroes.
Sad, and still true.

Heh, even more worse when the teachers are artists, people who needed attention and acknowledgement from others.

But then again, in the internet, art is a very "hot" commodity.
How do you know who have made it ?
How do you know the person you've just appraised, and might even paid to, is the creator ?
Some arts that are floating around in the net have no names attached and many claimed to be the creators.

Those influenced by such said arts... Well, most of them just, well... Made more arts.
Very few made acknowledgements to the artists.

Then suddenly, the sh1t hits the fan, and the real artist found that you were... The most polite way to say it probably would be "influenced", right ?
That you were influenced by him/her, and all hell break loose. XD

Artists, at most cases, are emotional people who expresses themselves mainly in their art and only in it.

So well, forgive them for their lack of social skills, and also if you said something and they take it another way, think that you are an artist too, and it might be possible that your social skills might be lacking too. XD
Just try to be polite, explain as detailed as possible, and if he/she is truly one of your "teachers", give apology and acknowledgement.

One of the main fault of artists is that they are vain and emotional.
Not of themselves, but of their own art.

I did ramble again......

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Re: Re: This is Jennadelle., 01-26-05 12:23am

Oh yeah, almost forgot.

You had also felt the same of others you thought were copying you, whether true or untrue, didn't you ?

We are leech. Too bad we're not leeches with good social skills.


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01-22-05 6:57am

Hey there - I got here through your piece on dA.
(my dA username is: Prowling-Wolf)

I like how you've brought this up.
The way I see it, it's inevitable that this will happen. If you share your art, and people like it, they will perhaps aspire to "be like you" or then, they love your ideas so much they feel like they need to try it out themselves.

I know I have been very much influenced by different artists on dA. In the beginning, there were times when I pretty much copied pieces I really liked for practice (I never posted those though - it would be as bad as ripping them).

These days, I often find myself examining the techniques of pieces I really like - for example, I can spend forever examining neovermin's pieces, looking at the way she combines different mediums, etc. I would never copy a specific symbol or anything of that sort though, unless I know that it is a widely distributed thing and not specific to that artist - though it does make me wonder where it originally came from. If I post a piece that I consciously know has been influenced by someone else's style, I credit them.

A lot of artists who are first discovering their own style will let themselves be "inspired" by those who are already big. The problem becomes more serious when after a while, they are unable to find their own style.

I think the problem is, again, that once you attain a certain kind of popularity, people WILL want to be like you. Even good artists will,as you said, "feed off each other", consciously, or more often, subconsciously. Our brain works in weird ways - it works by recognizing patterns. Subconsciously registered patterns from some piece of art may inadvertently show up in your own next piece, and you might not even realize it.

At some point, I think if there are things that are very very important to you, you might have to mention that you do not want them copied in your description - that way, anybody looking at the piece (and reading the description) will consciously register that certain symbol as yours. Of course, there will always be disrespectful people. And sadly, that's not to be helped.

Again, thanks for bringing this up.

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Following the threads..., 01-22-05 8:20am

...out of DA.

There's a difference between Influence and outright laziness. Influence of another involves learning why that influence's work is so striking, and seeing what this can lend your own style, not simply trying to capture that person's style and voice as well as you can.

I find myself easily influenced, and that gets to be a pain, always dealing with the fear that I am going to be demonized for copying, or not staying true to what *I* want to communicate. Wondering what is mine and what is simply outside seeping in. But the 'rightness' of the whole thing generally stands on intent and how the influenced is treating it; is it a lesson, or a crutch to them not liking their own style?


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unfortunate, but nessecary, 01-22-05 9:29am

i agree with you that it sucks when someone takes your idea or even just takes a part of an idea... but i think what we all need to accept is that in order for art to evole in any manner, weather on a large scale or from an idevidual standpoint. those ideas that we steal-or w/e you want to call it help us as artists. they spawn new (being a bit audacious here) original ideas and isnt that the whole point of deviant... to not only have your work reviewed and comment on, but the express yuorself to the world. weather or not you argee with me is regardless becuase when/if we decide to do art professionaly, nothing will change on this issue... it has been arts means for evolution for thousands of years and will continue to be. chear up its for the best :]

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This is Akurei, 01-22-05 1:52pm

Ohohoh.. this 'stealing or whatever you want to call it' hurts artists in the professional field, my friend. If you 'borrow' a little too much from a fellow concept artist, for example, you're screwed. Why? Because in most cases, the artist you've mooched off of doesn't own his work, or the rights to it--his employer does.

Also, stealing takes away from the artist's unique 'edge'... once enough people start emulating their 'hero', the artist is merely one in a cesspool of [predominantly] poor hacks... they're nothing 'special' anymore, they don't stand out, don't have any 'wow, that's new and interesting' shock value left to their work. This can lose them their job--why hire an artist who looks just like everyone else? If it doesn't cause them to lose their employment, they might be forced to reinvent themselves, simply to escape from their 'fan following'.'s a sick cycle, because then the fans want to follow their hero in the forays of their new style, necessitating endless reinvention.

Yes, over-influence happens. But that doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean it has to be tolerated.

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Re: This is Akurei, 01-22-05 7:13pm

Again, this isn't the person who posted above/who you were replying to, but again, I felt the need to comment on this.

I do not personally agree with taking specific symbols, as Jenna mentioned, from someone's pieces. However, considering style, it is very true that art has evolved. And it's very true that artists feed off each other.

Why do you think that so many people spend years studying the works of past and present masters, from DaVinci to Pollock? It's to get inspiration, to get ideas, to learn from the masters.

What needs to happen after that, is for the artist to develop their very own style. I think we need to take into consideration that the majority of people on dA are young aspiring artists who have not yet found their style, but are on dA to improve and find it. Their masters are people such as jennadelle, and, admiring her work, they will be influenced by it.

As I mentioned in my other post, I think the first step toward improving this matter is if everyone mentioned the main inspirations to their works - be it on or off dA, past or present.

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just another unoriginal thought, 01-22-05 9:39am

hey there jenna and co (if co are present)
this is just another one of the da vultures here, and first of all im glad to see biosis is being used again. i must admit i thought something like this would have come earlier, but nonetheless i am glad you have composed your thoughts on the matter.
the topic of originality and indeed image recycling is one of the largest in the artistic community to date. unfortunately - in an online community such as da this issue is going to be more widespread and apparent. obviously as one of the more (and i loathe to use the term) "popular' deviants your work is going to be recycled all the more. the thing most people will not understand is that there is a fine line between idolisation and plagarism/victimisation. artists with the noblest of intentions such as inspiration or tributary work can/will unregrettably cross the border where art is plainly recycled and redundant. you said that you yourself embellish in 'borrowing' for the greater good of your artistic progression but there comes a point to grow up, learn what you can, and move on. you are perfectly justified in being concerned over the state of the art community, trends and progression of art (yours included). cyclic behaviours are hard to break, cover the same art grounds over and over, and you will be phatomed the whole way jenna - bluntly put that is the truth. one of the problems with this mass copy /pasting that occurs is the fact that the original artist feels used. their work once self- inspirational becomes stagnant, only serving as fodder to keep the masses at bay. in short the artist is removed from the picture altogether and replaced with a mass media image. any emotion/psychological input cannot be included for fear of it being adulterated. the logical step is to place yourself in a state of antisociality or indeed flee the entire picture itself. unfortunately the solution escapes me as much as the next person - you can only change what you do (which will be just another incarnation of someone else's thinking) and will inturn effect another. i know its painful for you - drawing what you love and growing to learn your work is nought but a whore for the eye-candy crazed vultures of the world - but short of artist revolution or gauging the eyes of all guilty...i know not what must be done.
thank you for your time,
just another vulture of hyprocrisy and recycled lies,

ps. any comments, thoughts, or general hatemail to evil-santa.deviantart

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Well..., 01-22-05 10:06am

That cut to the core...

And I'm sure short comments like these annoy the shit outta people. Lo siento.

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Two sides of everything..., 01-22-05 10:32am

I'm also a DA user and I can see how anyone can be upset by their original thoughts and styles used in someone elses work. I'm not going to lie. I have honesty wanted to use a few things from your art. I try to improve my own art because I often feel it's not very good, and to do this I look at what I like about other peoples art and try to incorperate it into my art. True I do try to tweek it so it's my own, because making art that is nothing original to you is not something I want to do either. I'm not sure if you've ever felt that your art isn't any good, but it drives you to pursue other ways of looking at it. To "improve" in what way the word shows itself to you. I've never had anyone use any aspect of my art in anything so I can't completely understand your standpoint, but feeling that your art is being stolen away from you sucks. It's true that an artists skills dwindel if all they do is feed off of the insperation of others. I hope never to do that.

I hope your point gets across...

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...., 01-22-05 11:21am

im exactly whats in this entry -_- i used to be an original artist. really. but after i signed up to DA it all fell apart...i became "too" influenced. Yes, my arts gotten much better since i got here, i've got tons of watchers....but they're all watching me for the wrong reasons -_-; theres no originality left in me. I can no longer think up an idea and draw it, i have to go and look through all my watchers gallerys to find an idea. My art has no point, theres no feeling...its just....there. But the bad part is no one believes me, they still think im this "awesome" artist who just goes home and has thousands of ideas running through their head. I can no longer consider myself an artist....the only thing i can to is "memorize" what people have done....and butcher it into my own creation -_-;.....and i know im not the only one. "art" should almost not be considered "art" anymore. People just take tidbits of style from other people...almost like an art "hybrid", nothings original anymore.....only a few manage to come up with something no ones ever done before...kinda like the guy who invented the smiley.

im not really sure of where that comment when off to...just wrote what was on my mind.

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01-22-05 11:45am

Well said... I, personnaly, try not to steal anything *snort* (that's exactly what everybody must say right?). Anyway... When it comes to poses, details, accessories or symbols I don't steal the concept from anyone and if someone finds that I did something pretty much the same to the pic of someone else it wasn't intentionnal. Would be more like a coincidence. Where I come to "stealing" would be more when I want to improve my style... Look at the nose design of someone... Adapt it to my needs... muscles... ways to make the design of hands simpler... But generally I just base myself over my own body for body proportions or poses (love my mirror lol)

I won't ever claim that I am original... I just want to be myself and do what I want to do without looking at what others create and think about my art...

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Re:, 01-22-05 12:04pm

From DA too... (forgot to add something)

I just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I ever hurt someone because one of his/her pic influenced my style. I never wished to make you feel bad... I think that it's harder and harder to make something that noone ever did before (like in movies...) but from my personnal experience I can say that the more you master your drawing skills the less you look at others to inspire yourself...

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this is what I think..., 01-22-05 11:45am

(Maxximumbob- DA)
"There is nothing new under the sun." I'm too lazy to get up and check the exact scripture.. but that's from the bible. It basically means there isn't anything that is completely original anymore.. everything has been done somewhere in some way. There will be a ton of art that sometimes looks a whole lot like a char of yours.. i have had the experience of seeing an ad for a comic about a char with the exact same name and powers as one of my chars. That was years ago when i had no art posted online.. so i know it's just coincidence.. so even things like that.. we can't always jump to the conclusion that people stole from us.. which makes it hard. On the other hand.. unless your char is copyrighted.. you have no say anyway. That's a sucky thing to say, yeah.. but it's the truth. If someone took your char and copyrighted and called it theirs you could scream till you're blue in the face and most judges will still side with the thief. If you're going to post chars which are important to you or that you want to use later for something.. put some sort of copyright on them, will you? Trick of the trade: Make some original sketches of your chars and then send them to yourself in the mail. Never open that envelope. If ever it comes down to a court battle, you have a sealed envelope- stamped by the post office to show the date- with the chars in it. No one can say "i made these chars first".. unless they think you can forge the postoffice stamp.
But on to copying styles. I think more mature artists- in mind, not skill- should have the decency to at least say which artist they are feeding off of to learn how to draw. But i honestly don't think that if you're posting online you should let yourself get upset by such things. How many artists do you know who, when they were first starting, didn't copy someone's style exactly? I used to copy straight from comic books. I was 6, yeah.. but still. That's why i say more mature artists should have the decency to say "i love the art of such-and-such and have been trying to learn to how to draw from observing their work", because, honestly.. i'm not going to be the one to tell them not to copy anyone's style at all if they're just learning. After a while, such artists will be confident enough that they'll start drawing without looking to other people's work, and that's how an original style develops. Plus.. for people who DO do that and are reading this.. a better way to learn how to draw is to, in fact, draw from real life...or photographs, rather than from other people. It will not only help you to develop your own style.. but will keep you from "inheriting" the flaws in other's art. Other's can do stylized art because they know the basics.. if you don't you'll just end up with something messy and anatomically incorrect. But i can understand that sometimes people will want to learn to draw a certain way.. like there's something in a style that catches their eye.. they may turn to your work again. But let me say this.. i don't think anyone should really worry about their style being stolen... unless you have no faith in your skills. I know of an artist whose style looks exactly like that of Michael Turner.. but really?.. they'll never BE michael turner. So someone may copy the style of, say, Jenna.. but they'll never BE her.. and her fans know that. If you have faith in your skill then you'll know that no matter how much they copy your style it'll never be as good as yours.. because you are the original.(oh.. i should mention at this point that i use "you" loosely. It's not directed at the people who own this journal specifically.)
Feeding of of friends.. why worry about that? As long as you don't start copying things exactly then who cares? That, my friend, is what community is all about. It's why i'd rather go to college then take a correspondance course.. because true learning comes from having people who you can talk to.. learn things from.. share ideas with. If you start becoming so afraid of sharing your work that you can't sit down with friends and have a little art jam.. then i feel sorry for you. i think alot of artists are getting too uptight and forgetting how they themselves started out.
and lastly.. stealing aspects of your chars without knowing the meaning.. like symbols and the like? Annoying, yes.. but leave it alone unless it's a truly original symbol that you spent alot of time creating. Once again.. if they're using something of yours and don't know what it's for.. it'll never be as cool when they use it. Never. Let the "kids" try to copy it. Maybe leave them a note saying that they shouldn't do that.. once they realise the truth they'll stop.
anywho.. i've ranted enough.. i'm done.

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01-22-05 11:55am

I feel like I've been absorbed by everything. Not my art really, though i've definitely come across various other bubble breathing creatures and lime green and red oekakies. My fashion is the biggest issue. I dress like me. You can see bits of other things in it all, I guess, but basically I make my own clothes to my own designs. I wear things because I want to and because they suit me and my personality. Every year I go to school as ME, and within a couple of months, half the school is dying their hair the same colour, and wearing a cheap imitation of the snowboard boots which warm my toes. Somehow, they manage to credit it to themselves. I stay the same because this style suits me, and hopefully those other people will leave it alone and grow out of their mimicking, but all the time I feel the need to change just to keep my head above it all because being different draws attention. It's interesting. It's quite the conflict from any angle. To follow the crowd. Should you use what you see? What is natural to you? Or should you totally ignore both just to keep your head above the water? Just to keep yourself from drowning? It's hard to say.

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01-22-05 12:04pm

Since their creation, I've dealt with alot of Draekard look-a-likes, though I use the term lightly. It's not my place to go around determining who copied me, or who thought of thier creation without ever seeing a furry dragon like mine. I learned that pretty early on when I first opened my large, unexperienced mouth. It still hurts sometimes, I'll admit, but it soon becomes an insignifigant hurt because I remind myself that those that matter know that the Drae, among other things of mine, is my brainchild.

But I think we all go through something similar throughout our online artist lives,and then when you get good enough, others may be more than inspired and will try and emulate you through borrowing ideas or style. Most often than not, I think, it's a learning process and probably many, like the inexperienced, don't stop to think that doing so is going to hurt someone. Those that emulate will probably take on a style of their own after a while. It's like us when we were first learning to seriously draw. In my earlier years I was hugely inspired by anime, disney, Wendy Pini, Drew Hayes.. to name a few. I had no internet till 97, and even then it took me until 98 to find the online artists. By this time I had my own style, though it evolved somemore when I came across other artists whose stuff I liked. I could probably go on more about styles and what not, but I'll save it.. I guess one thing to keep in mind is remember we were all inspired by others to get to where we are today. The internet just gives us non-big name artists more exposure, so we're fair game to those that are learning. Instead of taking things from 'insert big name comicbook, manga, fantasy, etc.. artist here' they're using us to learn and posting their work alongside us because they can. I think because we're not really making the money off our art, like Marvel artists or Game Character Designers, we feel vulnerable or something along those lines.
But similarities do happen, whether influenced or not. To me, what makes something 'original' is not the use of one particular thing, but the use of many things to create a whole. Through my experience over the years, I've learned to look away from and stop chasing similarities and focus more on the art, instead.
That's really all I have to say/have time for at the moment :)

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..., 01-22-05 12:28pm

jenna, i understand your grivence on this perticular issue as u are undoubtably one of the more "popular" deviants, but in all hnoesty, you must learn to accept that your art will be "raped and pillaged" everything has ups and downs, and while DA is a giant congrigation of idea thieves, its giving you so much more... its letting you publicly display your art free of charge or effort.
...the DA community as a whole is fairly young, including you, so its not that suprissing that there are so many ppl "stealing ideas" , im willing to bet not many of them rly know who they are yet let alone developed a sense of originality. In all truth originality doesnt exsist, "originality" is no more than a colection of ideas, memories or w/e. everything comes from somthing else. if you had simply spawned into a universe completely devoit of anything at all do u think u would come up with any of the art u now create, or ny art for that matter.
i have to agree with the 19th poster.... its for the best.

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Re: ..., 01-22-05 12:29pm

...correction 18th

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Re: ..., 01-22-05 12:35pm

if u ask me, u should be greatful that all these ppl think your art is awsome and that they copy it at all.... the artist has not been forgotten, we still love your work, so theres nothing to be sad about... and its certainly not plagerism as long as they create it themselves.

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This is Akurei, 01-22-05 1:41pm

So what you're saying is...

If I'm impressed by your term paper, I have every right to copy choice lines and theses, maybe even full sentences... and it's all good! Because I'm just flattering you :) Or let's say I really dig the way you wrote your answer to that tricky Biology question... I'm so in awe of you and your skill, can I just.. you know, borrow a little of your answer?

Don't be sad, friend! I've got the greatest respect for you! I'm so glad your talent is there for me to ride off of, and be praised for.

And, btw, I'm not stealing or plagiarising, because I'm the one who wrote it on my paper, not you :DDDDD

So far as I can tell, this IS what you're saying. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Re: ..., 01-22-05 4:18pm

oH MY gosh. I cannot stand it when people say that. That "You should be grateful crap" how can I be grateful to someone who is just tailing me so to speak. Infact I get somewhat offended when I find someone using my style and most of the time not giving credit they assume people know who inspired them? I adore allot of people's work but you don't see me copying then not giving credit if something obviously looks influenced by them. How are they creating somthing themselves if there copying someone else?

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Re: This is Akurei, 01-22-05 7:03pm

This isn't the person who posted above, but I read this and figured I had to join in.

The way it looks to me, we wouldn't be talking about copying exact sentences, but simply ideas.
And you know what? It happens every. single. day. Or are you trying to tell me that you've never asked anybody for help/inspiration when you didn't know what to write for an essay?

Oh, I'm not saying that the issue about the whole art thing is in any way justified, I just felt that the example you used wasn't quite accurate.

Well, now that I think of it, even the "ideas" thing doesn't quite fit. How about paraphrasing from a book? In that case, credit must be given or it's still plagiarizing. I think the most Jenna will be able to ask for is that people who use elements of her style (it's pretty much inevitable, as sad as it is - but popularity just leads to it) at least give her credit for "inspiration".....

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Little note, 01-22-05 1:12pm

There's not much I could add on to what people have already said.

I admire your art for multitudes of reasons (the unique ideas, very clear style, colours fit nicely, etc.). I do try to learn from artists like you, so that I may gather inspiration and observe different styles of expression. But as artist study the history of art, or musicians study classical music - not for plagerism purposes at all.

Anyways, I don't draw that often. But if you ever see a deviant piece of mine where I've massacred your original ideas, bitch me out anytime. I'm probably not aware that I did anything, so it'd be good for someone to point it out to me. Because, as you said, it hurts on both sides.

That's all.

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oh yes., 01-22-05 1:59pm

i know exactly how you feel, both online and off. When people look up to you it's almost a given they will take their favorite elements of your work into your own.. which does suck in the first place, but if they are of any good as an artist, then that stage soon enough.

The problem with dA is that the community is just so large, and there are just so many great artists- it's a goldmine of influence. If you have even a slight recognition millions of amature artists are going to be exposed to you. Which, while having it's advantages, also has it's disadvantages, as you have noticed.

And it's unfortunate, really. But I am sure as artists we can all agree we have gone through or are going through the stage of leeching influence from artists we respect. It's just one of those things you have to accept, I guess. The moment you become a celebrity in any community is the moment you start to lose your idenity.

Good luck Jenna, don't let anyone's antics bring you or your art down. =)

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01-22-05 3:55pm

I know it probably just annoys others when someone like me leaves an obvious comment like this, but I just wanted to congratulate you, Jenna, for standing up and announcing this to everyone. Though some small individual somewhere else has probably brought this exact issue up at one time or another, I am glad that you - you who holds so much power and influence in DA and is watched by so many - were bold enough to do what you did.
Thanks for being the leader of a society on its knees.

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ohohoh, 01-22-05 4:00pm

ah, we all copy each other at some point, even when being unaware of it. We see pictures, go through online galleries and magazines, we somehow carve those designs, colours and poses in the back of our mind and it pops up after a while. Then we think it's our original idea when it's not, it's what we saw but maybe a bit modified or maybe the exact.same.thing.

Just like kids, we learned to speak and how to act from doing like others. Then each of us blends some parts together and it becomes our own 'original' concept. We just have to wait and see who puts together more things than others to make it more 'original' than the ones who just blend two or three things and hope no one will notice...

In the end, let's all exchange parts of our brains and discuss about why we aren't insane yet. Cheers!

-Dracanta, from DA

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01-22-05 4:00pm

There have been several times when my art has been inspired by something another artist had drawn, but in most cases you probably wouldn't know it unless I pointed it out.

I could point out several things I've learned from you. Drawing ears, animalic arm structure, and a little clothing design, yet these are just small things and again sometimes I might have to point them out.

I know I pick up alot of clothing and accesories from people off the internet. I take them because I like them, but it's not only the internet. I'm influnced by real life things too, not necessarly real life art either.

If you think about it into bigger context everything has been influnced by something. Pens, cabinets, pop cans, and other countless things. The difference with art is that it's more personal.

I do agree, that sometimes you can get influnced too much. I don't remember who it was, but their was someone awhile ago that had your same drawing and coloring style, but their art was empty of anything special.

I just kinda compare myself to a sponge. I pick up things I like, but I can just as easily get rid of them too. I don't think I get rid of all that much, but anyway...

As others have previously said, most people who are influcenced don't even know the meaning of what they are useing. So hopefully they will find their own way.

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01-22-05 4:24pm

this is so true.we are all feeding off of each other like parasites feeding off of parasites feeding off of more parasites. the first time i read this it disturbed the heck outta me because it's all too real. there was this one time it was hard to get acess to a computor and i thought i would die because i needed to see other peoples art to be inspired to make my own. i thought that was what all artists do, they need the media of others to make thier own. then i thought about originality, which now seems like an abstract concept, a sort of myth, everything's turned into a "mix-fest". the online art world in general, to me, seems to be decaying alive not just with the policies on DA and its little spin off SA (sheezy art) (btw, has anyone ever considered that DA and SA could be made by the same people?) after reading this a second time i'm considering taking a TOTAL holiday from the online art community as in not even visiting art hosting sites so i wont have a chance to mimic even on a subconscious level. but i prolly wont because now it seems a bit extreme.
but you made a great point.
btw this is chanticlair from deviant art.

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this is akurei, 01-22-05 4:26pm

A lot of people are mentioning that artists learn from eachother, just as kids learn social behavior, language, etc. A good point, a valid point.

But there's a definite difference between learning from someone, and blatantly copying them, taking something of theirs and making it 'yours'.

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01-22-05 4:32pm

Well, I must say that you do have a brilliant point. I'm also not going to sit here and say I've never done this before either. Though I'm still developing in many ways I've found myself looking at other people's work to see how they managed to pull off some of the effects I have been working towards.

Then again, I don't try to outright mimic what I see. I try to see how I can bend it to work for me. Weither its a certain way to color or to make something look alive.

Though that doesn't mean I strive to fit into a certain trend. I'm trying to figure out what my art can be.

I don't think I have a common style, but I wouldn't be a good judge of my own work.

Er, now that I've managed to make myself seem foolish since I can never get a thought clearly together...

~ Arc (Arckra on DA)

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01-22-05 4:33pm

In the pursuit of art, writing, music, film, etc. over the years, I've had this obsession with originality...whenever I would work on some story or whatever, I wouldn't even be able to look at anything else because if I saw something I liked, or if I saw something that might have a resemblance to what I was doing, I wouldn't ever be able to finish. I realize it's impossible not to be influenced, and all you have to do is look at about 10 different people's art, on sheezy or deviant or wherever, and it's not hard at all to figure out whose art they look at a lot. I have my influences like everyone else does, and people who know me well know who they are, and know that I'm trying hard to break away from everything and make my style taste less like a conglomeration of all the artists I look at. But not everyone does this, not everyone tries to tweak themselves and their style and subject matter and try to make it seem less obvious which artists they admire, and that's where the problem lays. Maybe they don't even realize it, because surely I've drawn things and didn't realize that I've seen something almost exactly the same done by some other artist and don't realize it until I'm almost finished, but then where I'll put something to the side, or not post it where someone else can see it, other people will choose to ignore what they've done, even ignore it when someone points out the similarity.

How DO we fix that? Just because it happens everywhere doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean that people aren't affected by this, doesn't mean that people should accept that it happens and stop whining about it, doesn't mean people aren't being hurt in the process. But it's been happening forever...ever since the beginning of everything, people have been influencing each can't be stopped. The majority of people will see something great, something widely admired, and think that if they take that and do the same thing, they will be considered on the same plane, they will achieve the same admiration and respect. I'm sorry it can't be stopped, but it's just the nature of humankind...because people don't have the decency to not do this, to not let this happen. As an artist, what can you do? No matter what you say, people are just going to smile and nod and pretend like they listened to everything you say, they'll tell you how great you are and how profound your statements are, then they'll click the +fav button and go back to drawing your characters and your symbols and your styles. Mob mentality.

I honestly don't know what I can say to make it better. It shouldn't happen, but it does, it should be fixed, but it can't be. It doesn't affect me as much as it affects others, but I'll do everything I can to help change this, if just by offering up what I think. Maybe we'll never reach a conclusion, maybe everybody who wants their stuff to stay sacred and meaningful will pull it all away from the public, maybe the world'll end. Maybe we'll figure out how to fix this. I don't know, we can at least try.


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I hear ya, 01-22-05 4:46pm


I think anyone who follows an artist they admire subliminally gets influenced. And there’s nothing wrong with that if there not outright copying a picture (Something which I see so MUCH on DA!) especially your work Jenna. I have seen so many “inspired” pieces they thought they were infact your stuff. What disturbs me is these people never give credit to the artist that “influenced them” (some look like they outright looked at a pic took: body structure, glowly lights, similar tattoo symbols,) and just somewhat redid an existing pic. And while there’s nothing wrong with putting tattoos. Piercing, similar clothing on creatures the way they totally copy someone else’s style not even bothering to try something different and come up with there own (Everyone has there own style they just don't know it) what is disturbing. Well atleast to me. I know I have been influenced my many people some on DA too. But I never and never will look to outright copy someone no matter how much I like there work. Yes people have similar styles I get quoted for having a “Jhonen Vasques” style. And I was drawing my chars this way long before I’d seen his stuff. I could only wish people didn’t outright use other people’s work for reference. I myself never do it..Infact I don’t look at anything most of the time..Perhaps only photos of animals for bone structure which I think everyone should do to understand anatomy of course. But I think the reason most people copy well liked styles is to..get attention be noticed.

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feral-goth, 01-22-05 4:53pm

So ye want opinion, eh?

Personally, I don't particularly mind someone using my symbols/works in their art as an influence. I don't really even mind if they don't give me credit (after all, I didn't invent sheep, but that seems to be my predominant theme lately). Rather, when someone sees some aspect of my art and puts it in their own, I usually take that to mean I had a good idea. And usually they diverge so much from what I've done that I really don't see it as them using "my" symbol in an inaccurate way. Of course, I don't know the depth to which people are imitating your symbols, and it may well be to the point that they are pretty much copying.

People taking my *whole* characters/landscapes/creatures/etc. without giving me credit, however, is another story. Sure, if someone wants to do a sort of 'fanart' of something I've done and give me credit ("Feral'scharthingdoingsomething"), fine. But if someone were to, say, draw one of my characters and name them the same and give them *all* the same attributes and then say it was their own idea... no.

Frankly, I don't worry overmuch about people copying my stuff. Granted, I'm not as widely viewed as you, and therefore not as likely to have that small bit of bottomfeeders that think they're somehow making themselves better by hijacking my art. Still, even if someone copies/traces my art... You can bet they're not going to do it as well. (Of course, if they outright steal an image, that's another deal alltogether; but that really isn't what this is about, is it?)

I think, though, that I'm getting off track.
My big goal in writing this, and hopefully at least the part people will read:

Every artist needs influences/inspiration. If you're never exposed to other things/art, you will never grow beyond what you know in your immediate life. I think that being an artist includes exposing yourself to a variety of the best/most interestingneat things (in all categories) that you're able and letting them inspire you to do your own thing.

For instance, I saw that one red/black/white piece you did for Secret Floor, and thought "Hey, awesome color scheme." And then proceeded to do my own redblackwhite. Of course, mine in no way resembles yours.
Though it vaguely shares the color scheme, mine's painterly.
Yours is graphic and liney.
Mine's relatively smooth.
Yours is grungy.
Mine's relatively 'light'; yours is dark and doom-y.
You get the idea. I took inspiration. Influence. Callitwhatever.

In closing, I appreciate that you bravely continue to share with us. There is a risk to doing so, both in literal theft terms and more emotional, immeasurable terms, such as 'losing control' over a ConceptThemeSymbol.

And now, I shut my yap. Thank you for reading. Or at least reading the bold print. Or something. Yes.

And I posted to DA after misinterpretting the thinger at the beginning of your journal. Not so much because you were obtuse as because I'm a moron. My apologies. I really did read it all. Oi...

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01-22-05 5:44pm

I agree that people shouldn't copy people's styles or own creations, unless they have permission to do a picture or two, and even agreements like that have restrictions.

I also agree that artists learn from other artists, but then that only goes too far. As for myself, I look at other people's art to see shading and anatomy because I'm not that great at those. I do admit there was a time in my life when I was a lot younger, I used to trace or draw off of art in books and such and claim it as my own, but I didn't know it was wrong, then. I don't do that anymore, but I do occasionally catch myself drawing something that's totally not my style and from someone else's.

I have my own problem of being copied off of. Not art, but personality, and yes, it hurts very much. A friend of mine sometimes tries to be exactly like me. He uses certain words I say, even if they're made up random noise/words like squidgy and other such things. He suddenly liked everything I liked. He even does things I do. It's annoying and hurtful, and it feels like my originality is being snuffed out like a flame. I'm sure art-theft feels a lot like that as well.

Even though copying is destructive and wrong, it won't stop. People are always looking for better things, in art, in life-styles, in clothes. And yes, people tend to be like sheep, herding towards the next thing that's "in".

It's a bit depressing really, to realize that the majority of people would rather settle for something that's already out in existence than to spend at least a little time and think of something they could call their own.

-Diem (crimsonkitsune on dA)

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01-22-05 5:50pm

Stealing symbols...
That reminds me of the Nazi's borrowing the swastika. (Sorry for using the 'n' word)

What might, could, and can be done?
Here are measures some have put to use (or tried)
-The first thing many jump for is the giant legal squeeky hammer (tm).
-Start posting massive watermarks/signatures/copyright notices
-Stopping the posting of anything original or personal

Professionals go for the last option. I read that most keep 80% of their work offline and private ( forums I think). Anyone having read about this spiny hairy squishy thing known as Copyright Law will know that poses, clothing (unless its a clothing design like the Fashion industry), markings, etc. cannot be protected, unless trademarked (like mcDonald's giant 'M', or whole characters, like Mickey Mouse). Copyright Law is also there to protect people's money, not personal feelings.

Copying will always happen. New Disney movie? BAM fan-art. I dont know how character designers feel when they poke through Internet and find pr0n of their creations.

Maybe the victim of copying must settle with him or herself, "Why does she/he draw?" (Draw/Paint/3DModel/Animate/Sculpt/Photograph/Write/

Draw to inspire others? Congratulations. But if it still hurts one's feelings to be copied, then maybe a little evil must be beared to do greater good.

Draw for money? Not much harm. Drawing for money either means intentionally turning someone else's ideas into a picture, or making something everyone would like anyway.

Draw for expression? It shouldn't matter either. Did the original artist do anything wrong? It would be a pity though, if being copied affects them. Which do they value most? Their art, or their feelings? Are they willing to let someone else's actions compromise what they love most? Anyone else copying would be doing more self harm than good anyways.

I think thats all for my 2 cents for the offered penny.


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one in a sea of responses, 01-22-05 6:46pm

you have gotten so many responses to this that you might not ever read this but here goes.

i think that "feeding" off an artist in such a way that it becomes obvious can work between people who know eachother and talk to eachother. with out that positive contact, imitation must be understood to be exactly what you said, either purjury or coincidence. what is truely offensive is when a person idelizes you to the extent that they use your ideas and your "style" and nearly recreate your work without taking the time and effort to invest themselves in it and truely change it to make it theirs. recently I asked for your permision to use one of your scetches as a referance to figure out how to make wings work on a four-legged creature, for a gryphon i'm still working on. it turned out that the angle i ended up useing eliminated the need to understand that part of the anatomy, but i still felt that you should be informed. well that really didn't prove a point. sorry.
i wish that there weren't people out there who coppied the art of others thoughtlesly. i just have to wonder about all the artists that do animation or cartoons who are copied several thousands of times over in the guise of fanart. i have no idea what they think of that sort of "plagerism."

if it is any consolation, many of the people who are on deviantart and copying your work will not go on to apply to art school or even go into art any where. so the chances of it hurting your future chances is not that big. but still i can understand that it is as though they are violating your originality. Suggestions?: 1) ignor them like you have been, but that's hard. 2) move; get a different username.

sorry that i am just repeating what everyone else has been saying already.

da user: jay6cee6 (physical media user; paints on newspaper ect. just to let you know where i'm comin' from.)

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01-22-05 7:12pm

i am really getting tired of all these people trying to justify copying with bullshit excuses.

realize you've done it, admit that you've done it, STOP DOING IT, and shut up. jesus.

sure, artists "piggyback" off each other--but there comes a point where you must learn to be yourself instead of a copy of someone else. stop trying to justify copying by saying it's a learning process. there are a million ways to learn. copying is a bad choice. when are you people going to figure this out?

jenna is right for addressing this issue. it's a bunch of bullshit that is getting way out of hand.

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01-22-05 7:18pm

it's sad to read that this kind of activity hurts. I'm not sure what can be done about this, mainly because i can openly say that you are a very influentual artist, maybe not intentionly, but because your style is interesting, it opens up emotions within people and is lapped up and greatly accepted within the DA community.
I must say i'm no better than the rest. When i first stumbled into the Deviant art world i was completely oblivious to this kind of style, your unique style. However, you were the first anthro/fantasy(whatever you call it) artist i saw, and it all dawned on me. I got caught up in it. Although my intention was not to copy Jenna or take this image and tweak it to make it look just different enough to be a new piece of art, i did see how observing artists like you could help me understand the style better. I wanted to be able to come up with creatures of my own, characters who reflected me or people i know. I needed to understand the anatomy of everyday animals so that i could incorporate it into my art, make the darn things look as if they could actually be living beings that functioned properly. Of course, there are other things that triggered the intrest. Games like 'Myst', which had some amazing species, creatures which inhabited each age. Sources like these are what get you thinking about different colours, patterns, skin or fur; the shape of the head, the tail, the limbs and stuff like that. Also symbols, which we see get smacked on to just about anything....and strangely enough, all similar to ones we just saw somebody else use on their drawing.

it's so simple for anyone to want to draw a symbol on their creature's jacket, and end up drawing a circle with a line through it that looks remarkabely like so-and-so's symbols, and this guys symbols, and Jennadelles symbols, and 20 other peoples symbols. I guess thats something that is so hard to control. Coming up with a symbol or marking that is not currently being used by somebody else is really hard. Symbols are just used at random now, and i do it too, to a certain extent. But this dosen't mean that they have no meaning to me.

i wouldn't say that people are intruding, or trying to steal your artistic identity. I would say that people may be trying to grab your attention, be your 'friend', or gain your respect (which would never fully happen because artists respect those who have true personal talent, a unique style that benchmarks them as one of the best. This is how i feel at least). Also, your popularity is something that many dream of having as their own.

I see what you are trying to express in your thoughts there. It makes a lot of sense, and i guess you deserve an apology from those who deliberately use your creativity to get somewhere in the DA community.
Gosh, there's just so much you can say about a topic like this, but i think i'd be getting to personal on your account.i dont particularly want to do this. All i can really say to sum up a whole bunch of points i just threw together is that people who are interested in this style and practice it often would find it hard not to incorporate some of the more general idea's into their own work eg..masks, or needles, or odd shaped stars. But taking specific idea's from your work, or taking the more general idea's out of context, with no personal relevance and using them just because Jennadelle does it and it's cool is wrong.

thanks for pointing it out, i'll be careful.

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dying to the death, 01-22-05 7:40pm

You have no idea how long Ive wanted to say that, but I couldn't put a proper "rant" together. I do it, so much, so much. I copy off you, sometimes, just because your art is so popular. maybe. even my titles immitate you- and nanya. and everyone. maybe because the masses seem to like certain styles, maybe I want attention, because I dont get it in real life. I think that could be part of it. I'm going to tell you something, though, about me personally. If I look at an artists picture, or pictures, for a while, and then go draw. Subconciously, for some reason, even without trying to do it, my pictures take on characteristics of the artist's style that I was looking at. I don't mean to, at least not all the time. I hate being so unoriginal, and I especially hate it when I draw things just to get attention. I hate it when other people copy off of you, so blatently, even with their image titles, just to get attention. Look through my gallery (dyingtodeath), theres plenty Ive copied from you, even if unsuccesfully. I think most of us are desperate for it. and when one person is succesful, comment wise, like you, we all want it. when I draw something that I like, thats personal to me, but isn't popular, like glowsticks or needles, I get no attention. so its like, very unworth my effort if I work on something and then no one cares. I want people to care, we want people to care. we're all crying for help, I think, maybe. at least, I think I am. Its stupid though, and at least you finally summed it up.

but there is one thing you said that I disagree with- its not hard to spot, when someone copies things into thier art. Its so, so easy to see. I could point out at least five right now, more if I could search deviantart. I can tell when they copy you, especially, because so many do. and I have liked your art since way, way back in side7, before the boom of popularity that I know you didn't even want. Ive seen it evolve, and Ive seen it ripped to shreds through artistic vandalism. Its still yours though, no matter how much its copied, its still yours, yours originally.

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01-22-05 9:24pm

Riddle me this: Why does it hurt? What causes the pain? Why does it feel (as I've so often heard it described) like a knife to the heart?

I've been watching the furry art community explode with stupid over this "issue" for years, and not once has anyone ever satisfactorily answered that question.

Why does it hurt?

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This is Jenna., 01-22-05 9:46pm

What would be a satisfactory answer for you? The best way would be to put your essence into my brain, but I can't do that. Stuck with this word thing.

So. Why does it hurt?

I'd imagine it hurts differently for different people, and the same for different people.

For me, it hurts because I feel possessive. Not a good thing, but still there. Raw and stupid: "IT'SMINEDONTTAKEWHATSMINE". Unjustified raw. Because we want power, power over people, another step up the big towers of blocks. Because we're selfish. Because it means something to you, and it's hard to see something socalledcorrupted.

I can't speak for the world, only me. [ not a final answer.]

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01-22-05 9:38pm

I say stop worrying about what other people are doing. Just do your own thing. All the teenage youngster "anime" artists running around trying to say this and that is their original thing is just funny, because for the 12 to 25 years they've been on this planet they must know nothing about art to think that anything they've done is really original. No denying that you and many other teenagers on this site have some amazing talent, but it just looks stupid for all of you to spend so much time worrying about what is yours and whats not. If someone is plagarizing you then put a stop to it and MOVE ON. Worry about yourself and not so much what every other artist out there is doing.

Learn a little something about art history and these things called MOVEMENTS. If it wasn't for artists feeding off of each other we wouldn't have impressionism or cubism or even japanese comic books.

Seriously at your age you spend more time worrying about everyone else rather than your own art. And get over yourself. You draw very well, but so do about a thousand other artists just like you.

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This is Jenna., 01-22-05 9:54pm

While you're at it, if you'll let me throw back, step down from yourself. And maybe this really isn't about the issue at hand.

Amazing talent? Me? No. I just draw, and it happens to be what others like to see. You think I don't know a thousand and then some have the same? Tell me where I need to get over myself. Where did that come from? Don't think I think myself so high.

I'm a person, singular. I'm not representing the 'art'-related teenage internet. Just a person, on the other end of a key-board. I don't presume to know.

"If someone is plagarizing you then put a stop to it and MOVE ON."

And how would you stop them, then?

Then again, it's your opinion. It's your right to assume.

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Re:, 01-23-05 5:52am

Dude, don't be such a pretentious tool.


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leeches, 01-22-05 9:59pm

I don't agree with everything you say, but much of it is true.

Being inspired by other artists can be good, being too influenced by them is bad.

You're a popular artist. [not you specifically, I'm generalizing] You've got plenty of talent and style to not share, because it's not a thing that can be shared.

Cause: Someone sees your art and is inspired.

Effect: They've just been exposed to some amazing art, and it pushes them to try and be "better". Good.

Effect: Your concept inspired a "new" concept. They like what they see, but won't rest at that because they want to like what they see in their art too. Bad.

Also, some people just care about being known. So they see a style that is well-liked, and figure they'll leech it off of you, figuring it will make others like their art. They might not even like your art, but you're popular right? So what does it matter if they like it or not?

Talent is something that can't be stolen. Style is, and you've got a distinct style. Where did it come from? It has to be traced back to something. There's no paved road behind you, but there is always something behind all of us.

As for what can be done about it? Nothing works out perfectly, or even close (not that anything can be close to perfect, or even be compared to perfect, because perfection doesn't exist). If you're afraid of people taking from you, hide your art in some dusty corner where no one will find it. It's easier than trying to brainwash everyone to stop the theft.

Sorry that I'm completely useless in this.

And another thing, who came up with the idea that stealing is wrong? Where did moral even come from? (I believe it's wrong, but it's just another moral that was pounded into my head, and something I only question in theory)

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Vekke, 01-22-05 11:00pm

Thanks for posting this.

I can honestly say I really needed to hear this, because I do forget/don't realize it/whathaveyou. :]

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nothing is as good as the original, 01-23-05 1:09am

i know i probably cant say anything that will make you feel completely better but i'm going to do my best.

the sad truth is that whenever art is appreciated it will be duplicated there is actually a recognized form of artwork that is based entirely on works inspired directly by other works so it will always be an issue when not handled properly... for instance it would be far less offensive and controversial if those who wish to create art similar to yours would ask your permission, respect your wishes or at very least label it as fanart or inspired work or what have you... one other thing you might do is speciffically request that the more personal ideas you post should not be replicated according to your will.. even then however, assholes will take your ideas

its just one of those things that must be dealt with without eliminating them because its quite impossible to do so...

the way best to deal with this situation is to take a good hard look at your artwork and decide what is completely unique about it... i assure you that somewhere out there someone who has never seen your work has a very similar style to yours, but what must be understood is that every piece of real artwork, inspired by other art or otherwise is unique to the artist and the idea behind it.

a copy of your art that is made only to be a copy can never measure up and will never be adored as much as the real thing... there's no need to worry about losing your ideas to others... people will know if its yours or a copy because it wont have the same soul...

if the hurt you feel from being robbed of the individuality of your ideas is outweighing the benefit of sharing your art, then i regrettfully say that perhaps you ought to reasses the situation and perhaps determine wheather it is worth it to post your art or not...

i love your art so much and it inspired me to become an artist as well and i admit that i have created artwork based on your own, but in the few that look similar enough to yours i always label it as fanart and credit you and encourage viewers to go look at the real thing... the very last thing i want is to take anything from you or hurt you, but if it werent for you, i wouldn't have become an artist.

there was an incident i experienced when i used a piece of art as an anatomical reference and was later attacked for its similarity to that artist's style. the artist in question does realism type animals and no one lays claim on the things that occur in reality, and especially in nature. their accusations against me were iffy in thier justification since the animal i had drawn occurs in reality and i had intended it to be a realism piece so i felt the same kind of hurt as the type you feel when your art is plagerized when i was accused of doing so but i bit my tongue and appologized for it to the fans who assailed me and credit the artist and relabled it as fanart though i never felt i had done wrong...

so you see the other side of this is painful too. no one likes to be accused of a crime they aren't guilty of.

lets all try to be more sensative to each other's wishes... thats the only way this type of thing than ever be better.

anyway i hope you feel some sense of relief or at least resolution soon!

best wishes;

PS i'm really sorry i posted at your journal where you said not to, but i dont see well (for real) and i didn't recognise the 'here' as a link, since its just that stupid deviantart link thats only a sparce shade lighter than everything else lol.

like i said, best wishes!

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zam, 01-23-05 5:50am

As I already said on DA for the benefit of those reading there, originality is grossly overrated.

I was once told by some Art Center guy, that instead of worrying over originality, just take what is common, and make it uncommonly good.

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seraph, 01-23-05 8:06am


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Re: zam, 01-24-05 7:18pm

I disagree... with gusto!

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?, 01-23-05 10:55am

Out of curiosity, I'm wondering.... er...... okay scenerio: (no sarcasm was used in the making of this long winded question)

Let's pretend that Bob has a character that Bob has created, all Bob's own and he adores his character. Bob has big plans for his character and doesn't much care if anybody give his character the time of day because as long as Bob likes his character all is right in the world.

Now, let's pretend that Bob is one day cruising along and bumps into the collection of art between the two of you. Bob is widly impressed and hails your talent.

Bob lets the unique style sink into his head, rolls it over and when he looks down at his original character again, forms an idea. He spends a bit of his time redrawing his character as if the character was made in the likeness of your style, and then plain as day writes that the different style was in the likeness of your's right on the picture so that the creative credit is originally given to you.

Having the rush go through him, Bob nods, puts the picture away and returns to drawing his character the way he always had, because the character would no longer be his if he didn't and he knows that.

I was just wondering where that falls into all of this and your view on that as compared to the complete incorporation of your work into the work of others.

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01-23-05 12:22pm

I'm sick of all the "originality is overrated" crap. So I put my dollar fifty here.

My belief that everything we do have is partly unoriginal and original. To me every idea has a part that is common but has a detail that is personal and rare. In this, the idea is original despite some parts are not. It's the combination that creates an idea that makes it original.

Everyone feeds off each other. That is true. We learn from others and sometimes you don't notice it (I don't notice it).

However the problem here is what is the difference between out-right copying and being influence? Everyone will answer it diffently. There hasn't really been a solid universe boundry yet for it.

Though it is different when someone "traced", "re-colored" or post up someone elses art as their own. It's different because people (or most of the majority) understand and know that's taken directly from someone else. Past that however and there is no solid concept.

You do have a right to say what you want. And I do agree with you for the most part. I just want to put down what I believe about originality and plaugerism.

End note here is that I am sorry if I misspelled words or mixed up my grammar. I just don't notice it until someone points it out.

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tree fiddy, 01-23-05 1:42pm

Is it all just luck, are we lucky if what we WANT to draw happens to be what others like to see? What happens if your not one of the lucky ones? Copying is, something like, an answere to being one of those people who don't like to draw what other people like to see but still crave their attention. You can't just leave things to chance, we all know that. We're all built to find solutions, even if there selfish ones, or incomplete ones. Same with everything, not just "art". or rather, drawing. If someone is better than you naturally, you want to be better than them, because nature SCREAMS at us and tells us to succeed, to use what we can to do so. If you don't realize that our petty biological makeup makes us want to be the best, or at least better, even in something thats supposed to be relaxing and uncompetetive like "art", than realize it know. CUZ IT DO. But maybe, if we know about it, we can stop it. Sometimes something unearthly sneaks into your psychy, and you dont want to be better, you just want to be happy, or you just want to know the truth, whether you would like the truth or not.Its a fleeting feeling, but its worth every bit of waiting. Like an awsome dream you have one night. It all applies to this, it applies to everything we do. Go listen to some music you really like for some odd reason, like its mysterious, maybe final fantasy music, or music from Fable, or something. Videogame music is always good for revelations. maybe. I don't know.


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01-23-05 2:42pm

I must confess, I'm one of these piggybackers that are being discussed. It's how I learned to draw. I found someone whose art I really enjoyed and started trying to emulate their style. This person even helped me along, corrected my anatomy, shared some of her drawing strategies, etc. Nearly a year later and I've improved infinately more than I ever could have on my own.

Our styles are similar. But they are not completely alike, you can tell a difference.

So as far as style imitation goes, I really see no room to complain. Part of the learning process is from imitating other people. In a painting class I once took we were to find a painter whose style we liked and copy one of their paintings. Excellent learning experience.

Becoming a good artist is a long and difficult process. A lot of us need help and Jennadelle - to many people you are their textbook. They look at your art, they wonder how you did it, and they give it a shot. But because they are not you, their style will not be yours. It may be similiar, but it will still have their own individual traits thrown in. I have browsed many deviants who are similar in style but I still notice that they do this different or they do that different and are recognizable as a seperate entity.

Idea copying however, thaaat's a bit trickier. I personally leech off my friend all the time and she off me but we have a very strong rapport and it's understood and accepted. But from watching some people who were obviously influenced by both your style and ideas, well, they eventually drifted off into their own stuff. Learning experience. It just takes time for everyone to grow into their own artist and sometimes they need some help along the way.

I'm too laid-back to ever be riled up over something like this so it's hard for me to understand where you're coming from. But as far as styles and general ideas - learning process. Hopefully they'll develop their own variety of art.

Now as for blatant character theft... swordfish 'em. As in, slap 'em in the face with one. Mwuahah.

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Teknikat Here..., 01-23-05 3:50pm


I guess there's not much to say. I agree with some, don't agree with some.

Jenna...I hate to say it, but it comes with the territory of being a popular artist. If your art is liked, it will be copied, imitated, and used for inspiration and practice.

That is partly how I learned. My personal style is a combo of a bunch of styles I learned from watching my friends draw. And it grew better after I got on the internet and saw other ways to draw. Cara Mitten influenced my paws. Kathleen Newman influenced my bodies and shapes..and so and and so on. I have simply melded my influenced styles into one, creating my own.

And indeed, I am influenced by you. Your body shapes amaze me, and I have printed your art out to figure out how you draw the way to you draw. I want to be able to do the detail you do. I want to be able to color like you do. I am influenced by you. But I incorporate into my own style.

Don't get me wrong...copycats are horrible things, but to be influenced by someone is not wrong. I personally would see it as a compliment....until they did a direct, obvious look alike. Then I would get annoyed. Believe me, I was annoyed with Odayga, but I was more annoyed about the fact that she was taking my creatures names and butchering them and making them her own. I didn't care about her bad art....even the one she did a direct trace from. It's more humorous than annoying...

See, I look at it at it like this: They suck at drawing. In hopes of learning, or to get known, they copy yours. But it looks like crap why bother getting angry over it? Yes, they took your idea, your art (not your species...that is something to get angry over) and butchered it. Most cases it's humorous because it sucks.

The sad thing about Odayga is that she, if she tries, could potentially be a good artist. I hate seeing her talent go to waste.

Anyway, I know you probably don't like hearing what I think...but I'm an opinionated person, and so must see my view thrown out to the world to tear apart.

I'm not saying influenced or inspirated art is right....

But in most cases it isn't wrong either....

Teknikat out...

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Re: Teknikat Here..., 01-24-05 1:35am

Odayga... I KNOW that name. I think I finally lost my temper at her for bothering me over aim 24/7, begging for comments on her stuff. Sad to see I'm not the only one being annoyed by her.

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Interesting quote, 01-23-05 7:42pm

"No one should ever imitate the style of another because he will be called a nephew and not a child of nature with regard to art."

-Leonardo Da Vinci

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Re: Interesting quote, 01-26-05 12:19am

Oooh, now that IS a good quote.


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01-23-05 10:40pm

Not many people are original anymore: it's too hard to be. So we borrow. Borrowing too much from just one person leads to a trend and no more originality; however, people should borrow from everything and everyone they see. Inspirations gets more obscure and harder to point out, and those ideas that were borrowed merge and feed off one another and spawn new, better ideas. But that's hard to do.
I can't help it, I'm just another follower. I get inspired and I copy styles, but I think that helps me lead myself to my own styles. It's hard to get an original style though, because down to the core it's simple to point out where this and that came from. It's depressing. I have noticed, though, that some things inspire me to be inspired. Other things I morph into my own ideas and try to make it different. You are something that inspires me to get inspired. And I'm not bias to you: that would be hard to do, considering I know nothing about you other than that which you choose to put online. I just know you inspire me to get inspired, but you're certainly not the only person that does.
It's hard to make a line between inspiration and borrowing, though. Nobody is themself. They are just many other people in one body. We leech off of eachother. Humans are humans are humans. It may be a drag, but it happens.

Thanks for starting this and allowing me to express this very weak opinion.


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01-23-05 11:18pm

You're saying you're sick of people copying you, and your ideas... or you're sick of others saying everyone is copying you? Your "point" isn't quite clear here to me.
I see a lot of people who have obviously been at least inspired by you. But I also see a lot of people who seem to spend much of their time, trying to tell other's that they're copying you.

- Zarathus

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^______________________^, 01-24-05 6:56pm

Eh. Ideas are free; you couldn't stop them if you tried.

"There is nothing new under the sun."
- Santa........... or Yoda... or Jesus or Shakespeare or somebody; I don't fucking know, haha...

Everyone has their working hypothesis on this, that, and the other, when it comes to art because you're right - it's totally subjective. I used to be able to rant for days and days about "originality" and what people call "theft" and the pluralization and multiplication of ideas and psycho-aesthetic paradigms (which I like to call para-dig-ums; can you para-dig-it?) over the ages and yadda yadda yadda, but these days (read:right now) I'm tired and hungry, and I just say "Hey guy. They call it ART for a reason; it's a balancing act... Get it together.."

- Thom


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Originality = NAUGHT, 01-24-05 9:43pm

Have you ever considered the possibility that no idea is actually original? Perhaps ideas are just frequencies and wavelengths, mere figments of concept that pass through our minds. Some people are attuned to a certain frequency, like you Jenna. You seem to pick up well the grotesquery wavelength. Oh and look over there, the frequency for exotic and ravishing costumes. Come here, see the furry channel, tune in to some realism over there. I'll put a star on my critter. Pronounce the jawbow, tie its legs in barbed wire and kiss it with blood.
How can we claim ownership to ideas? In some cases yes, people create a design and are the first to do so. Maybe though, they didn't create it. They just perceived it before everyone else.
This doesn't make direct copying right - oh no, not at all. It's just saying that no one has the justification to declare that they own an idea. If this happened throughout history, art would have never gotten past scrawls on a cave wall. It would not have evolved.
Now I'm not saying that originality is overrated. I'm just proposing that it doesn't exist.
Let your mind chew on that for a while.

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Re: Originality = NAUGHT, 01-24-05 10:55pm

Dood. No.

I mean, if you wanna start with that shit, you've also gotta start arguing stupid crap like that none of US exist, and are just figments of the imagination of the great space-baby, and blahblah blah, until someone reminds everyone that PHILOSOPHY MAJORS DON'T GET JOBS AFTER COLLEGE, and then we can all return to having a simple conversation about the real things that 99% of us are able to acknowledge in our everyday lives without lapsing into a pretention-induced coma.

It's all just relative; balancing-act is my buzzword for today, and I'm sticking to it..


PPS. It occurred to me afterword that the above post read somewhat one-sided; I had meant to add a bit about rips being relative too, but I'm sure you know what i was getting at.

It's like yin and yang; but yin is a turkey, and yang is a ten story high gravy boat........

... and dumplings are an extra $0.30..

... and you've GOT a Sacajawea-Dollar, but your waitress has never fucking heard of them before, because she's apparently been living under a fucking rock and....

What do you DO...
What DO..... You DO...

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push.tyber://lungfish, 01-24-05 11:50pm

actually jenna if you're going to name who i lifted from, do it correctly. I disliked roux's early works and i still do. so that ran out the window, didn't it? Early Push is MKS/TheMaxx/Watership Down Movie inspired. In that the movie bit with the symbol animals. Also there was alot of tearing it from NeoGeen [obvious] and LATER ON, Kaz [more obvious].

Saying I lifted Roux is like saying I lifted Lurid, and they were busy lifting each other.

Sorry if you had to repeat what everyone else said, but just because they all hold that opinion, that doesn't mean it's the correct string to pull. Hell, I TOLD you my lifts, so why make one up?

oh and jenna, do me a favor:

It wasn't as bad as they thought it was
next time that's about to slide over your serpantine tongue, remember two things. Remember that it's your opinion and it's not valid when in terms of the one you actually tore to fucking bits. Your opinion of the ferocity of it means jacklittleshit on the scale of how it felt to the other person. I don't say ME because it's not just me you've ripped up, there are others, and all your apologising that's up and past and other bullshit that you pulled will never fix anything. The fact that you would say some shit like you just did shows that you're ready and willing to spit in the face of someone who trusted you with something that's alittle more than their fucking imagination.

I haven't dreamed the same since you fucked me over. Be so proud of yourself.

The other thing to remember is that I heard you numerous times upset over how they took you and used your bits. How it distressed you when it was simply faint similairties.

You wonder why I reacted as I did when you took my whole ballpark and stuck your name on it.

Until you come to grips with the fact that you're as much the leech as ANYONE else out there, i can only see this whole entry in irony. This isn't from a personal view, this is stepping back and seeing how you've sucked off of others BESIDES myself, but do not ever fucking admit to. Because you have the ability to take someone's idea and build a world from it, but you are constantly bored by your own. You flip channels on your own art but the moment someone else's catches your eyes you get hooked.

It's part of your personality, I know. You and I went over that. It doesn't make it healthy and it doesn't make this entry any more fucking right.

I can't be angry at this. I haven't been angry for a long time. I can type the words but I can't feel it, and all I can do is just look back on even what I'm typing and wonder why I'm bother and what's this disgust in my stomach. Where's Push and her screaming and rage? Why did I bother without her.

I'm going to stop before this becomes anymore trite.


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01-25-05 12:12am

jenna must read so fast, dood..

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*Kiminess from DA*, 01-26-05 9:18pm

I read your rant like three times, making sure I got it. Or... mostly got it... or at least tried to understand... anyway @_@; Here's what I have to say on the matter~ *smile*
And you also said you wouldn't reply if i posted this on DA... But, in case people are lazy, then I posted it on there as well and here too ^^;;;

oh my gawd >> that is the most I've read about your feelings and thoughts. That is amazing! I have a whole new respect for you now!
At first, you know, i kinda thought you were stuck up and mean.
But I know you're like, really really popular and have much more to do then sit and chat with people on your AIM list and what-not... I kind of feel bad for pinning that on you.
But I honestly agree with what your saying.
I'm not going to mention any particular occasion where this has occured for me as well...
Well >> I'm not exactly sure what I'm agreeing with to be honest.
But, I understand. I mean, I get it. But I don't know how to express what I'm trying to say.
But, I just... agree?
I think this is great.
I mean... wow. Your thoughts! *clings on them*
I love reading my favorite artists' thoughts and feelings on matters.
I don't know why.
I'm just a freak.
But... I get it.
I respect you and think you're an amazing artist.
I admit, the style of your creatures' heads and face shapes have kind of slid into my (attempted) dragons.

But don't you think that some infuence is good, as long as they don't completely try and take over the style?
Like, use a similar style... but make it theirs in some way?
Different little quirks that make it their own?
As long as they don't completely adopt the whole... thing and say it's theirs and stuff.

Holy cow I suck with words.
*pauses to re-read rant*

Okay, I read it again...
I had two others read it, and I got completely different reponses. And I got really confused.
Are you complaining about someone stealing your art?
I'm sorry, I never really meant to somewhat adopt a similar creature face style...
But it is really so wrong to use similar things?
I mean, not all-out take your idea and continueously use it over and over...

But like, one similar picture shouldn't be enough to have an all-out fit, should it?
Unless, it's completely copied. Like what happened to me one one occasion [which was weird... 'cause the picture kinda sucked... XD].
If she would have changed it a little, and said something like "Inspired by a picture by Kiminess" I probably wouldn't have gotten so angry. Never got an appology neither *lesigh*

Anyway, 'nuff 'bout me, right? "GET ON WITH IT!" as Monty Python says. XD Oo; sorry.
I mean, I understand that if I did your kind of artwork, I'd probably be peeved if someone else started using WAY too similar things on their creatures. Such as insane masks and the red moon in the back and all the awesome hangy things. But, I'm fortunate, I draw anime XD
I can understand your view.
But you really shouldn't let things get the best of you.
I saw Push's comment...
Weren't you guys good friends?
Should your really split up like that over something so... pointless?
I really do understand.
But still...
Shouldn't this blow over and go back to like it was?
Start talking about... @@; whatever it is you guys talk about?
I honestly wouldn't know.
Maybe you talk about your stories and ideas for beasts and characters like some of my friends and I do...
I hope you guys become friends again.
Because both fo your art is neat, and there are normally depressing/angry rifts in artwork when one loses something close to them.
Anyway, i hope you feel better about all this.
and I'm sorry if this blown out nothing-but-drivel confuses you and you have to read it over 5 different times to understand what I'm saying. *hug*
Keep drawing.
And don't let similarities rip out your insides.
'Cause then you'll turn into an unpleasent psycho fangirl I had the unfortunate oppertunity to have a squabble with. XP And they're really no fun.
'Specially when they fling insults and horrid accusations of color/concept stealing @_@

Yer like, #1 Fan and such XD

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Re: *Kiminess from DA*, 01-29-05 1:42am

I saw Push's comment...
Weren't you guys good friends?

yeah. i still miss her to this day.
Should your really split up like that over something so... pointless?
have. did. ended. pointless? know what you speak of before you say such things.
I really do understand.
no. no you don't. this is all i have left [ohboofuckinghooSOBSTORYTYBERdoSHUTUP] in alot of aspects. not just the art, because the art isn't the ending. le rouge. as a whole. those that live and reside in it. my fucking anchor.
no. no you do not fucking understand. and that's fine. most people say they understand when they don't. it's a way of personalizing an issue and trying to give comfort and mutual emotion. so do that to jenna, but not to me.
Shouldn't this blow over and go back to like it was?
it couldn't. ever. too late too gone the end.
Start talking about... @@; whatever it is you guys talk about?
that WAS what we talked about. i talked about them and she talked about her life because they ARE MY LIFE. is it causing some understanding NOW?
I honestly wouldn't know.
Maybe you talk about your stories and ideas for beasts and characters like some of my friends and I do...
which is exactly what we did. bury that one.

if this sounded nasty, it wasn't ment to. take me with salt or don't take it at all.


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01-28-05 12:22am

Hmmm... I admire both of your artwork immensely. I have no artistic skills to speak of, at all. But I have at times taken artwork and imitated it exactly, in hopes that it'll give me at least some ability - it's failed sofar when I try on my own, but it at least gives me *some* sense of accomplishment. It doesn't get shown to *ANYONE* though... I'd say it's OK to "plagarize" artwork just so long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to pass it off as your own... I've not yet seen what sparked all this controversy (I'm assuming something that you drew Jenna that was similar to someone else's artwork?), but I think that if you *do* "copy" art, it should either be kept private, *OR* have a _very_ clear link to the original accompanying it.

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07-25-05 1:12pm

Nice rambly half-formed argument you've got there. *sincere* I like to think of it as part of the evolution opf art when it's non-malicious, and (hopefully) part of a learning process when it is.

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