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lugosi (profile) wrote,
on 1-18-2012 at 10:00pm
Current mood: lonely
Subject: Fidelity
It is ironic that right now I feel "lonely" given that I am going to be speaking about fidelity.

When I was young, and I am talking about toddler up until I was... maybe around 11? I was of the naive frame of mind that we were all like penguins and when we met that "special someone" in our lives we would be inseparable for our whole lives.

Now that I am an adult, I realise that things in life are never as simple as my younger self thought they would be. I learned through my own folly that many times that people are not faithful as they claim to be originally.

I once dated someone who was divorced, this was not the bone of contention (the fact they had children was the issue), however this individual one wanted bragging rights that they had snared a younger individual than themselves so that people would "ooh" and "aah" at us. I was very young, too young for a relationship in my opinion, so I only count this as a "dating" experiment, this divorcee ended up returning to their ex-spouse. So essentially what happened is they both had a "break" and returned to being like penguins as though nothing happened... peculiar but fair enough.

My last ex, and this was a proper relationship, what an interesting character. Ex claimed to be pretty much identical to me with needs and wants (romantically or otherwise), but it turns out Ex was a control-freak and sexual maniac. Because I never gave Ex what they wanted they became abusive and generally unpleasant but again I am a naive person by default (although I am trying to change that to prevent this nonsense happening again!) so I went along with this despite people telling me I had family and friends to fall back who would help me, so I initiated "domestic revenge tactics" this is essentially when I go around doing things that will irk or enrage my ex; leaving the lid off the toothpaste, leaving greasy plates in the sink, throwing away their prized knife to break up "the collection", throwing away letters for them they needed to respond to... you know general little things that you can fob off as an "accident" but still piss them off.

I was scared that if I did break up with Ex that I would have to deal with threats, violence and various other unpleasantries so my reasoning was there is only so much annoyance I can cause before Ex will want rid of me. After being in the relationship for... a year and a half? We had stopped romantic contact entirely, no hugs, no kisses, no sex, nothing. Ex slept on the couch and I had the bed. But still Ex clung to the notion of merely "having" a partner, but I am can assure you right now I doubt Ex was faithful, whilst Ex told some people we were a couple (I had resigned myself as "single" because it was more we just lived together and nothing else) but told other people we were single. I am certain Ex slept around, and for the most part it did not bother me because I did not count us as "in a relationship" but Ex did for 85% of the time.

So people ask me how do I feel that my ex was a cheat, I tell them straight that I do not care in the least because really, it wasn't a relationship and eventually after a further year putting up with it (three and a half years of pure hell) Ex broke up with me! I am certain Ex had another partner already lined up but to be honest with you I was as happy as a clam just to be away from the abuse and unpleasant atmosphere.

Now, back in the "good old days" relationships seemed more stable, things seemed to last longer, I am not saying EVERY relationship lasted forever but a lot more did last than ended due to infidelity. People had standards back then and it was often the case that people promoted long, healthy and rewarding relationships. It seems as the media has shifted to glorifying sex and promiscuity that relationships are shallow and trite. Perhaps it is all to do with morals? People were more religious and God fearing in the past were they not?

I like to think I am a moral person, in fact I have a lot of people tell I am a very moralistic, I take this as a compliment, it might be traditional to think that relationships should last forever, but really, they should. You should be able to find Mr. or Miss. Right and know that you can both grow old together.

A friend of mine, who is a very nice friend of mine, has been unfaithful or, should I say, has assisted someone else to be unfaithful. I am not completely "informed" on the subject but apparently the difference is when you are unfaithful it means YOU are cheating on someone, if you assist someone else it means you are single and thus do not really have anyone to feel guilty about hurting, because really, if two people are attracted to one another they should explore this and if one of those two is with someone else then it is THEIR problem not the other person's.

I am unsure, I think that it is sort of unfair to encourage someone to cheat if they have a partner but I know that flirting seems to be generally accepted universally, it is fine to have a "harmless" flirt.

But is there such a thing as a "harmless" flirt? Surely, if people are flirting this means there is an attraction there? It might be small, but it is there, right? I mean I know for a fact I do not flirt with someone if I find them unattractive or unappealing to me in some way, I know certain sales people use flirtation as a sales tactic but again that is different when doing it for a job. But if two people are flirting with one another whilst one of them has a "significant other" that cannot be fair! Is "emotional cheating" not quite a bad thing to do in a relationship?

Another issue with flirting is when does flirtation stop, when has it gone too far? Let us use the example; if someone is in a relationship and another person is not, they are out together enjoying one another's company. They hug, generally speaking in modern day society most people greet each other with hugs, so this would be deemed acceptable in today's society. Now what if they hold hands, is this acceptable? Linking arms? Kiss on the cheek? Kiss on the lips? A friendly grope... where does it end? I mean short of full on intercourse is everything else fair game and completely acceptable?

I would not be happy if I were with someone and they went further than a kiss on the cheek, I do not mind a hug in greeting and a kiss on the cheek on in parting but anything else... to me that would be cheating, surely a lesser degree of cheating but still cheating.

What about you? Do you think there are accepted rules within a relationship? Unwritten ones perhaps that people are allowed a certain amount of leeway with flirtations, when would you count your partner as being unfaithful to you?

It is a touchy subject sadly, and I do not mean to rock any boats with it, I am just curious what other people think about it as a whole as everyone has very differing opinions on it. I also wonder why some people are happy being "The Other Woman" or "The Other Man", is that to do with just having the contact from another person or... is there something more to it?
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01-19-12 3:35pm

Personally, I have cheated, have flirted, and have been the other woman (or at least have tried to be). Now I am in a healthy relationship, no matter what drove me to do those things in that previous relationship, if I truly loved my significant other, I feel I wouldn't have been driven to being so careless with their emotions - even if they lied and cheated on me as well. If I forgave that person, I wouldn't have brought all of those things up again in fights and arguments. I shouldn't have stayed so long due not only to my self-respect, but because I was doing the same things.

None of those things are right. Even if you are single, it wouldn't be fair to that relationship. I'm not saying that as a person in a now healthy relationship, feeling others will strike. I'm saying that from the perspective of the other woman and as the person who was coerced in the past. I wasn't considering both the feelings of my or their significant other. And at one point during another coercion, I recognized what was happening to my relationship and was not as present in the other person's life. I paid more attention the relationship I was in... but in the end, still wanted something different - which I believe is one of the things that sucked me away in the first place. But I don't blame that on someone else, I blame it on myself.

In my now healthy relationship, there are no lies. There is no deceit. There is no getting the other person back for those wrongs, as you were mentioning with the toothpaste cap or knife set. None of that shit seems to matter when you love the other person. You want to not harm them. You want to protect them from yourself. You want them safe and sound and on that pedestal you have created for them. And you know, if you are not careless with them, they will not hurt you as well. You trust that everything will be fine.

Now if someone betrays you by either deserting you or having someone else they are involved with, it takes time to build that trust up for the individual who hurt you. But it shouldn't take time for that trust to repair itself from another person who hasn't wronged you. Jump head-first into that relationship with knowledge of someone else's actions, but not feeling as though they are they same as the last one.

It is a delicate balance. But none of it, as we told ourselves as children, is easy. It takes time. It takes faith in love. It takes dedication. And I think it also takes the right mindset. If you aren't thinking the relationship is the same as the other person does, whether that be that it is only temporary or will last forever or that you want to marry that person, it won't work out no matter how hard you try. You have to be, together, knowing where it is headed and not cheat the other person out of a better person if you see how devoted they are to you and you don't feel the same. Being selfish or jealous in a relationship never works - from the point of view as the most jealous, selfish person I know. Relationships don't mean you think about what you want. It means you think about what is best for the both of you (while still of course, being happy it is going that way).


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01-19-12 3:50pm

Oh hello there! Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to my rambling.

I truly appreciate you telling me this story, I imagine that (correct me if I am wrong) but from what you were saying here is that initially when you were "the other woman" you were not in the best frame of mind you did not consider the other person's significant other nor your own feelings fully at the time?

I have been presented with... opportunities in my own past where, if I so chose, I could have been "the other" in a person's relationship but never could bring myself to do it because whilst I was unhappy with my ex-partner I never felt that cheating would justify anything and only cause more friction.

When you say coerced, did someone convince you to be the other woman like it was your only option/choice? Were you single at the time?

I do agree with you completely there I think if two people step into a relationship at different places in their life and wanting entirely different things that relationship is doomed from the get-go. Both people need to want the same thing from a relationship... otherwise what is the point?

I am curious but you might not know this but did the person you played "other woman" to go back to his/her partner and build up trust after confessing to what he did? Or did they both go their separate ways?

If you truly loved someone, like if I truly loved someone, and I was cheated on, I think it would destroy me... I think. I do not know for certain, I just imagine.

Once again, can I thank you for your input, and this has helped me see from another perspective a little clearer.

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Re: , 01-19-12 6:36pm

No problem. I always read the new posts on the front page. Usually to procrastinate on some work. But this one I took particular interest in because I have had so much to do with it in the past.

When I was "the other woman" I was only selfish. I not only didn't consider the feelings of the guy I was trying to get involved with (when it came to his relationship), I also wasn't considering his significant other's feelings. She was very upset when she found out. They tried to make things work but in the end, she found someone else and he was not particularly over either of us. And I realized I was completely stupid for trying to get anything from him - whether that be flirtation, attention, or something more. Not to mention I wasn't single.

Cheating was only one of the causes of the end of my relationship. I decided to cheat after so many things that went wrong. Neither of us were trying anymore. And I didn't consider cheating as sleeping with someone else, even though he did sleep with someone else. I cheated by kissing someone else. And also cheated because I did have a crush on him and after I "dumped" my then fiance, went back to this boy and did some more things with him. I'm not proud of the cheating. But I think, even though we both cheated, even though we both were sorry for it and regretted what we did and if given the chance wouldn't do the same, we still are better off not in a relationship with each other. There were so many more things that were wrong and though my cheating wasn't the right choice, it did cause me to see that one of the reasons for cheating was because I think I was looking for an out.

No, when I was speaking on coercion, I have been the one in a relationship and others have tried to woo me out of it. Several of my male friends have done this. One went as far as to take a six hour drive in hopes to have something be there because I was doing that "harmless" flirting with him. Not because I liked him, but because I was getting attention from him that I wasn't from the relationship I was in. Many tried to be "the other man." One succeeded, but that was because of me. And we never got into a relationship, we just fooled around after everything was over. Not much of a climax and after getting input from the perspectives of myself, my ex, the other guy, and someone not involved, I am not proud of anything I did.

If my now boyfriend cheated on me, someone I love with all of my heart, I wouldn't know how to deal with it. I can imagine it would feel something like not being able to breathe... like the walls would cave in on me and I would feel as though I was dying. But I don't know for sure. I think, if I loved someone completely with all of my heart and tried my best to make it work, and they betrayed me, I probably would lose all of the faith I have in men. Regardless of whether they're different. Though I don't think the love I felt for my previous partner was true, we both hurt each other and I will never forgive him for that stuff - which is why we're not together anymore. But I do know, any further cheating would be devastating to not only my self-confidence, but to my psyche as a whole. Don't know about you, but that's how I feel.

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